tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2129086278343859186.post4371566552242930940..comments2023-11-29T18:53:19.500+00:00Comments on Reading The Summa: Question 89 – A Separated Soul’s Cognition.Gregory the Eremitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11652447286252910371noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2129086278343859186.post-33367625973808246322014-10-21T20:22:38.942+01:002014-10-21T20:22:38.942+01:00Did you mean question 79? You referenced question ...Did you mean question 79? You referenced question 99?<br /><br />I agree that he means the agent intellect to be at least partly of the human soul. I expressed the alternate above as a "contact", which is probably not a word in the Thomistic tradition. Note, however, that in article 4, in "I answer that", he says "Therefore we must say that in the soul is some power derived from a higher intellect, whereby it is able to light up the phantasms". This is where I felt the ambiguity I mentioned on October 20th. Thinking further upon it, I see that there really is no ambiguity, just as the plug on a machine is both part of the machine and the point of contact of that machine with the source of power. <br /><br />Still, this would imply that what we understand through our senses requires a supernatural illumination, so do you not think this would imply that the second mode of understanding _does_ apply while the soul is united to the body, but usually (but not wholly) limited to understanding derived from the sense acquired phantasms.<br /><br />I say not wholly, because there remains the divine revelation to the prophets and the grace of faith to the rest of us. How, if not through the second mode, would we arrive at this kind of understanding?<br /><br />I am, of course, deeply interested in this (aside from Aquinas's particular theology), because, today, we have to deal with the challenge from computation to our ideas of free will and morality. If, as many keenly assert, a computer could fully simulate he operation of a human brain, then free will is a false concept, we cannot be responsible for moral action, and everything else goes down the drain, because computers are deterministic machines.<br /><br />I don't think it is the case, but I guess it's a bit off topic for this site. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734383634017906375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2129086278343859186.post-72385133517550614152014-10-21T16:40:14.022+01:002014-10-21T16:40:14.022+01:00In this question, Aquinas is very much interested ...In this question, Aquinas is very much interested in the natural modes of cognition of the soul. He identifies two such natural modes: the one that we’re most familiar with, that involves abstraction from phantasms derived (eventually) from our sense organs; the second, applying to the natural cognition of a separated soul, is the one that he concentrates on in this question. Although he doesn’t explicitly state it here, I suspect that Aquinas would argue that this second mode of cognition does not apply while the soul is united to the body; and this simply because it has already has a perfectly good natural mode for this mode of being of the soul!<br /><br />Aquinas does take the agent (or “active”) intellect to be part of the soul; see Ia.q99.aa3-5. Article 4 of that question connects Aquinas’s theory of cognition with the idea of divine illumination. The agent intellect is the thing that is responsible for abstraction from phantasms (and being part of the soul ensures that our congestion genuinely is “our” cognition). But what is it that moves the agent intellect to act? Rather than divine illumination taking all the hard work out of cognition for us (spoon-feeding us abstract forms), it is the first mover that moves the agent intellect to act.<br />Gregory the Eremitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11652447286252910371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2129086278343859186.post-56667786133568704022014-10-20T20:37:27.098+01:002014-10-20T20:37:27.098+01:00Well, the natural cognition of the soul would be t...Well, the natural cognition of the soul would be through the senses and the process (procession) of reasoning,as Aquinas abundantly argues. But if the soul, after separation, can be informed by the action of immaterial substances, as well as through the illumination of God, why could it not be informed this way, in a lesser (but necessary, as I would argue) degree before separation. It is not clear to me whether Aquinas's "agent intellect" is supposed to be part of the human soul or whether it could be this contact with divine or angelic light.<br /><br />Modern enthusiasts of computation seem to think that all of the conclusions we draw from given premises are necessarily drawn through a process of pure deductive reasoning, but the fact is that given a small number of statements taken as true, an unlimited and divergent number of lines of reasoning (combining and dividing, as Aquinas puts it), almost all of them leading nowhere follow. Surely, some exterior illumination is needed (hence my 'necessary' above) as guiding inspiration (a 'muse' is another word for it from a different tradition) for the reason to aim at.<br /><br />I have long thought that the easiest leap of faith is the 'induction' of science, and the hardest, though always possible with the right heart, called Grace, is faith in our Lord Jesus.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734383634017906375noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2129086278343859186.post-53622680481493909802014-10-20T09:46:30.368+01:002014-10-20T09:46:30.368+01:00Interesting thoughts; could you expand upon these ...Interesting thoughts; could you expand upon these a bit for me? In particular, how would you see these examples as being part of the natural cognition of the soul as opposed to the supernatural?<br />Gregory the Eremitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11652447286252910371noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2129086278343859186.post-24330082192308889882014-10-20T04:22:32.975+01:002014-10-20T04:22:32.975+01:00"The second mode of intellective understandin..."The second mode of intellective understanding operates after the separation of the soul from its body; but can it, and does it ever, operate whilst in this earthly life?"<br /><br />Would not the revelation of God's Word as the Bible be of the 2nd type. Also, the understanding that is the Grace of faith would be too, would it not?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01734383634017906375noreply@blogger.com